Bakery Row Forum
On Wednesday October 4, 2006 over 200 residents, business owners, developers and otherwise just concerned stakeholders met at Calvary Church to discuss the future of this thing we’re calling Bakery Row. Not to be confused with Bakery Square-Walnut Capital’s effort to convert the former Nabisco site into a massive retail, housing and office development- Bakery Row is an effort to bring about a stakeholder-based shared vision along Penn Avenue from East Liberty’s commercial core all the way to 5th Avenue. More recently, November 8, 2007 the second community meeting was held at Reizenstein School to discuss the final revisions of the plan.
These meetings were the first part of this effort. This Community Website is the 2nd part! This is for everyone who really wanted to say something at the meetings, but did not. It is for folks who need the quiet of their office or library to review materials and comment on them. It is for folks who could not make the meetings but wanted to.
Taking the comments and input from the November 8 meeting and this forum, final revisions will be made and the final vision document will be available for use on this website. Community groups will be able to use the documents to advocate for change, and inspired developers will be able to use the document to craft projects that they know will garner community support.
Here’s what to do…
Step 1
Download the Bakery Row Vision Plan and
Project Overview which contains several background documents on the site and contains all of the sketch-level design alternatives for each of the development zones in Bakery row.
Step 2
Download any or all of the following documents which represent the feedback from the community meeting on the following sections of Bakery Row. The corridors numbers correspond to the following map:
Corridor 1 – Shady Avenue to the Busway
Corridor 2: Penn Avenue from Penn Circle to East Liberty Boulevard
Corridor 3: Penn Avenue from East Liberty Blvd. to 5th Avenue
Corridor 4: Shadyside Residential Edges
Corridor 5: Edges of Mellon Park
Step 3
Post your comments below. They will be read by others participating in this blog and will help inform the designers and market analysts helping us with this effort. Anonymous or noxious comments will not be posted.
This effort is co-sponsored by East liberty Development, Inc. (ELDI) and Shadyside Action Coalition (SAC).
Bakery Row Master Plan Steering Committee
ELDI, SAC, East Liberty Chamber of Commerce, South Point Breeze Organization, North Point Breeze Planning and Development Corporation, Village of Shadyside Condominium Association with support from Community Design Center of Pittsburgh, Rob Pfaffmann and Associates, Semple Brown Design, Pittsburgh Partnership for Neighborhood Development
It is very important that this area of our community be developed in a responsible mannor. The number one priority for bakery row is thoughtfully planned multi-family housing and some small retail development carefully targeting specific resident needs that are not served by surrounding areas. Residents and communities are what make city neighborhoods livable, and provide nexus for a broader, stable, and more equitable tax base. Warehouse-sized shopping centers with asphalt oceans do nothing to accomplish these objectives. Retail competition led only by economies of scale rather than differentiated offerings lead to monopoly and lack of diversity in a community. I am against the presence of any large scale retailer in this area. It doesn’t make sense.
October 26th, 2006 | #
Having moved to Shadyside 2 years ago, I have been struck by the large swaths of urban blight of Pittsburgh. One of these areas is this row of warehouses called Bakery Row. The money that has been injected into the Baum corridor with the introduction of new retailing and especially a Trader Joe’s is particularly welcome. I think that if retailing is introduced to Bakery row in the same way, then I would welcome it. When I visit younger, actively growing cities of the south and west, a major difference between Pittsburgh and these regions is that of the infrastructure. Here it is old and decaying. There it is new, clean and vibrant. Since Pittsburgh doesn’t have weather, it needs to offer ease of living in order to stabilize and grow its population. Having a wide variety of convenient retailing will help improve the quality of life here. For residents of Shadyside, many of our retailing needs require us to go to the northside or southside of the city. The roads of Pittsburgh are narrow, the speed of traffic is poorly controlled, and the drivers don’t follow many traffic laws. So, traveling to the Northside or Southside of the city to find these retailers is particularly unappealing. In order to enhance the livability of this area, I would strongly support development of this area.
October 26th, 2006 | #
is there even a remote possibility of having some unique mom-and-pop retail shops in addition to the big anonymous box stores and the smaller chain stores in any of the new developments in the East Liberty and other east end areas?
Walnut as a neighborhood street is gone and Ellsworth may soon follow. I miss having owners know not only my name, but also my merchandise preferences!!
November 10th, 2006 | #
It would be great to see this old industrial site be redeveloped into a higher and better use that would be community serving. My fear is that it will present a disconnect from the core of the East Liberty business district, where we have been experiencing very positive retail and economic development the past several years. If public money (i.e TIF financing) is to be used at the Bakery Square development, the benefit should be spread over the wider East Liberty community, not just a single development. Funding should be sought to strengthen the vehicular and pedestrian corridor between Bakery Square and the East Liberty business core as well as address the significant infrastructure deficiencies in E.L., namely conversion of the circle into two-way traffic. These improvements will benefit not only the Bakery Square development but also advance several other proposed promising developments in the district. A rising tide lifts all boats.
November 10th, 2006 | #
My top concern for the success of Bakery Row (and many others’ in several subgroups) is the ability for people to move in and out of it easily. Transportation infrastructure has led to huge failures in East Liberty in the past. Putting aside what exactly happens inside the development, be it retail, commercial, light manufacturing, etc. the flow of people into and out of this parcel will be key to its success or failure as well as the subsequent impact on the adjacent neighborhoods. There have been plenty of discussion on the impact in Shadyside, Point Breeze, and East Liberty, but what about on the other side of Bakery Row – in Homewood and Larimer. I would like to see some of the traffic congestion problems addressed by also opening up access to Bakery Row from the opposite side of Fifth Avenue, ie from the busway in the rear, and possibly utilizing Hamiliton Avenue to take the load off Penn and Fifth. Could something creative be done utilizing the rail bed in the rear, ie using some of that land to secure a path for bicycles and pedestrians to connect to some of these neighborhoods ? Answers to these question can only be resolved by the developers partnering w/ the City and Port Authority to come up with an overall creative vision. By considering some alternative to access from the Homewood/Larimer direction, we would not only be addressing the congestion problem that will exist, but it could also spur development towards the direction of these neighborhoods that could really use it.
November 10th, 2006 | #
It is most important that we be sensitive to the many businesses which have invested in East Liberty over the years. They were here when we needed them. They kept East Liberty alive. We must not duplicate their services.
November 10th, 2006 | #
My 2 cents:
Both sides of the street must compliment each other in order to achieve the right magic in the center. This cannot be a block development. It has to be a street development.
The success of bakery row depends on what is done with the Reinzenstein property. The school building is a dreadful eyesore and fortress. The piece of land has the potential to link the expensive Shadyside residential streets to the new development. The Village of Shadyside development is a walled development (necessary to be saleable at the time) and the Reizenstein school is an equally impenetrable island.
In order to insure Bakery Row’s success, complimentary uses should be planned across Penn Avenue. If the building is converted to condominiums, a ‘central park’ may enhance value. If Nabisco is retail, additional retail should be considered. (If this happens, I would shelve plans for the revitalization of Penn Avenue inside the circle anytime soon). Adequate free parking must be immediately available for whatever use is planned.
Currently, automobile traffic on this stretch of Penn Avenue moves very quickly, using two full lanes of traffic in each direction. This is a good thing. I would hate to see on-street parking. There should be some thought as to how this stretch of Penn Avenue links to Baum Boulevard.
I value Baum as a major vehicular connector (and as such should have no parking, and should not be ‘walkable’). The core of East Liberty is an obstacle to quick circulation. The Bakery Row stretch of Penn Avenue continues the efficiency of Baum Boulevard travel. If vehicular circulation is retarded along Bakery Row, people may use Fifth Avenue and bypass East Liberty. Penn Avenue towards Wilkinsburg is also valued as a quick commuter route (with the exception of the dangerous and annoying parking near South Braddock).
November 10th, 2006 | #
Bill’s comments make the point that if the Nabisco site is developed as a retail center it will negate the need for the redevelopment of Penn Ave inside the circle. It seems absurd that so much effort would be put into converting the existing Nabisco site as retail when we have so much infrastructure existing at the core of East Liberty just waiting to be given a chance to be given a new life as the commercial core it once was. Put the commerical and retail efforts back into the heart of this district!
November 13th, 2006 | #
As a neighbor and home owner in Shadyside in the number 4 area, my concern is that no more than local traffic be kept off the streets from Shady Avenue east to Mellon Park. This area is bordered by 5th Ave, Penn Ave, and Shady Avenues. This a residential area east of Shady Avenue inlcuding Shady Avenue. Highland Ave is almost all is almost all residential until it intersects with Center Ave. and should remain as it presently is.
There is no advantage to home owners in letting Big Box type retaliers in establishing business outlets in these areas. Parking is a problem even for Trader Joes, and when Staples opens parking, and traffic will become a problem.
November 14th, 2006 | #
LARGER PARK FANTASY?
I agree the hopelessly ill-fated Reizenstein structures has to go. It should simply be leveled and turned into more park. It would be cool, but incredibly expensive to link the expanded Mellon park above or below ground to the park across Fifth Avenue. A single systematic park would be a dream for everyone; it could really be stunning, and tie a lot of things together. Obviously the city could rebuild at the Reizenstein site if suddenly a flood of children overtook the city and new schools were needed.
Obviously it would be a noisy urban park, as the mostly unusable park areas are, except up above Fifth Ave. With more room though, a heavier greenbelt could be built around the perimeter of the existing park, or some of it. Surely there are examples of this in great cities. If people are worried about a Criminal Atmosphere developing, the magnificent gates across Fifth could be replicated in some modern, clever low cost way, and all of it gated at sundown. A system of cool gates would also provide a feeling of protection from the blast of traffic on Fifth and Penn. A shallow moat-like pool with a few fountains and waterlilies and ducks might also help with the need to make a break between the place where people are relaxing and children playing, and the crush of traffic. Again, I think a “water feature” like this could be designed so that it wouldn’t become a trash trap like the otherwise lovely little ponds by the Highland Park Pool. The purpose again is psychological protection from the traffic. Bits of moat which make the place visible from the street might also make people more comfortable about “crime” and so on. I dont know what is psychologically best.
With this much space a pretty good jogging trail could be constructed – not my favorite activity, but it would bring a crowd through, who wouldn’t have to drive and park if the were from Point Breeze, EL, Homewood or Shadyside.
But the barrier of Fifth Avenue is the completest nightmare imaginable to continuity – and obviously nothing can be done about the traffic carrying role of Fifth/Washington/Penn. (The idea, mentioned above, that traffic should not be impeded along these, but even expedited, by ruling out parking, seems true to me, as unneighborhood-making as it may seem; for one thing, it will make the commerce we are hoping will “revitalize” things more accessible to others.)
On the hare-brained, One Big Park idea, a link across Fifth would have to happen at the tennis courts or playground area. But with more space, there would be no trouble moving these things around. It would be coolest if it was a broad, landscaped above ground pedestrian walk that took account of the immense rise up above, so you start out low over by the tennis courts, and end up high….
I think I could do a really spectacular job with only a few hundred million…
November 19th, 2006 | #
To help encourage bicycle and pedestrian traffic, a bike path connecting Beechwood Blvd, on the south side of Fifth Ave, thru Mellon Park to East Liberty Blvd, across the street from Reizenstein. This would help connect Squirrel Hill, which is quite bicycle-friendly by virtue of the excellent and popular Beechwood Blvd bike lanes, and Highland Park, which is also bike-friendly. Unfortunately, the car traffic on Fifth and Penn Avenues acts like a brick wall to bicyclists at the northern end of Beechwood Blvd, making East Liberty bike-hostile.
It is currently possible to get from Beechwood to East Liberty Blvd on a bicycle by snaking through parking lots, narrow sidewalks, driveways, and risking your life along Penn Avenue, but it is not a route I would take my kids on. The new bike path I am proposing would improve things greatly. We could start without pedestrian bridges across Fifth or Penn (Michael Thompson’s idea, above), for economy, but add them later if demand warrants. The existing traffic lights will work for now.
If, furthermore, a path connecting Mellon Park to the east end of Walnut Street were opened up (behind Ellis School), that would help connect Shadyside, Squirrel Hill, and East Liberty, and reduce the Fifth & Penn traffic bottleneck. People could walk or bike from their home in Shadyside to shopping in Bakery Row (Staples, Trader Joe’s, Club One), instead of driving “around the horn” on Fifth and Penn.
December 9th, 2006 | #
I saw the presentation on Bakery Row at the recent SAC annual meeting. It is an interesting project and I agree with many of the comments submitted on this site already. My concern is regarding the housing component of the project. One is that it seems there has been an explosion of new housing (and renovated) all over the city (loft conversions, new apartment buildings, etc.). Does Pittsburgh have the population to support all this plus plans for Bakery Row too? Also, I fear that all the new housing might make people less inclined to renovate existing homes in the city, which could lead to neighborhood deterioration. Please keep historic preservation, green/sustainablity issues, and community sensitivity a priority! Thanks!
May 8th, 2007 | #
It is a shame that the site was not thought of to develope a manyfacturing plant. The area needs jobs, not more space to spend money. People in the East Liberty need jobs. The bakery was built for better use.
My family worked in that building since 1925. I managed the manufacturing and know what it is capable of housing.
July 28th, 2007 | #
[...] http://eastlibertypost.com/bakery-row-forum/ [...]
October 8th, 2007 | #
[...] Bakery Row [...]
November 2nd, 2007 | #
[...] Please attend and voice your support for connecting the Bakery Row development via bicycle to all of the surrounding neighborhoods! [...]
November 6th, 2007 | #
Please don’t overlook the growing population of people like me who use bicycles as their primary transportation. I typically cycle through the Penn Circle area several times a week on my way to get groceries, do other shopping, or travel between the various neighborhoods that border Bakery Row. Some specific points to consider:
- Bike racks are good, the more the better. For example, the racks outside of Whole Foods are great, but they were often nearly full this summer.
- Left turn lights are great for busy intersections. However, if they only activate when a road sensor detects a car, cyclists can get stuck with the choice of running the light or waiting for a car to pull up behind them. Timers are better.
- On wide roads with not much on the shoulder (ex: Bigelow Blvd, Birmingham Bridge, Baum Blvd), drivers seem to switch to “highway mode” (driving fast and paying less attention) which is dangerous for me as a cyclist. Narrow roads with parallel parking (ex: Penn through Garfield) are just as dangerous, if not worse, because I have only a couple feet to ride between traffic and parked cars which might pull out or open a door. I really like wider single lane roads with parallel parking, few stop signs, and enough space to ride safely (ex: N Highland between E Liberty and the park). The complexity along the road seems to keep people alert and driving at sane speeds, but traffic also moves pretty efficiently and I rarely get in the way of cars.
- I can relate to Bill Kolano’s comments on the importance of the Penn corridor for moving across town and the connection between Penn and Baum. When I drove more, I spent many frustrating hours poking along in congested traffic along that route. I would suggest that there are other alternatives besides just a cross town highway with big retail parking lots (dangerous for bikes and pedestrians) or a congested business district (painful for drivers). Separate, parallel routes for cars, pedestrians, and bikes might be a good start (Bike PGH is a good resource for more info on this). Careful attention to the timing of lights (like 5th through Oakland) could also make a big difference.
- Finally, I suggest that careful planning to accommodate bikes and pedestrians, including people in wheelchairs, might go a long way towards getting cars off the road, reducing noise & pollution, and improving traffic flow for car commuters. In particular, parents riding with children and people with a low tolerance for cycling in traffic would be well served by protected bike paths or at least a good network of bike lanes.
November 7th, 2007 | #
One good thing for this area would be to tear down the fence that exists between the Shadyside residential area and Bakery Row. It runs from 5th Avenue, between zones 3&4 as depicted above, completely separating the two neighborhoods. It’s like they’re trying to keep the people of one neighborhood out of the other, which is largely the case with East Liberty / Shadyside and needs to be absolved to open this area up.
With a bicycle route / lane to Frick Park so nearby it would be wonderful to see bicycling / jogging taken into account when working on this area.
I also can’t agree more with limiting the number of Big Boxes. The East End is beginning to look like a shopping mall, and while East Side was a welcomed addition that seems to be bringing Shadyside and East Liberty together, we don’t need anymore ginormous grocery stores or two story book stores. Give us some more local restaurants, cafes, clothing stores (non-chain versions of these that sell affordable clothing are pretty much non-existent in this part of town.)
Just make it friendly for local businesses to open up, and don’t think that everyone in the area will show up in a car – some of us just like to cycle/walk to where we’re going.
(Thanks for the blog, this is a great idea!)
November 7th, 2007 | #
I wanted to follow-up the comments I made yesterday about connecting the various surrounding neighborhoods via Mellon Park with a story that illustrates what Nathan Swartz writes about above. I arrived late for the presentation last night. Not out of negligence or because of poor time management, but because I physically could not get to Reizenstein Elementary via the bicycle-friendly side streets through Shadyside. I ended up riding around on my bike, lost in Shady Village, for 10 minutes searching for ways to access the school. What I found was that I was completely blocked in by walls, fences, and gates. Finally, I made a couple of correct turns and found myself in the Giant Eagle parking lot where I was able to cut over to Penn Ave.
Howe and Kentucky are fantastic streets for biking East and West through Shadyside and avoiding the busier Fifth and Penn Ave arterials. However, both streets dead end near the park which forces cyclists to brave Fifth Ave for a long city block in order to continue on East bound via Beechwood/Reynolds or to access Thomas via Washington Blvd.
While we are going through a visioning process for this area, let’s not ignore the fantastic opportunity we have to once again connect all of these surrounding neighborhoods by opening these gates and allowing bike and pedestrians to access the park. An easement through Ellis School’s property would most likely be needed as would some new bike paths through the park.
BikePGH would be happy to meet with all of the various stakeholders to look more closely at this area and figure out the best ways in which to make these connections.
November 9th, 2007 | #
Try to bear in mind that gambling is not a one way street.
December 17th, 2007 | #
I would like to add my support for opening a bicycle-pedestrian route connecting the end of the Beechwood Av bike lanes at Fifth Ave through Mellon Park and the Reizenstein property and connecting with Howe and Kentucky Streets. This would open a critical link for bicyclists who don’t want to ride on Fifth or Penn.
This could be done right now by simply opening the gate in the chain link fence between the old arsenal and the unused tennis court. Open it just wide enough for bikes, pedestrians, wheelchairs, and other nonmotorized uses, and block motorized use. It would also be nice to improve the surface, but just opening it would do the most important thing, which is to create the connection.
Currently the impenetrable wall between the Shadyside residential areas and Reizenstein force pedestrians and bicyclists to use Penn Ave (or Fifth Ave, which is even worse with the construction). Pedestrians at least have sidewalks, but only quite experienced bicyclists are willing to ride in the traffic on Penn.
Opening a bicycle/pedestrian connection does not have to wait for full-scale development. One small change now — an open bike/ped gate — would make Mellon Park accessible to Shadyside residents and would make it possible for people from up Beechwood to visit Shadyside.
December 27th, 2007 | #
Thanks eastlibertypost.com for such good information
March 26th, 2008 | #
Hi,
I used eastlibertypost.com forum to get information for that i had in my class. This is an excellent site for this information
July 4th, 2009 | #
Does anyone know if any of this development will spill over into Wilkinsburg? That area is a diamond in the real rough. Development in this area has been a long time coming and would be very much welcomed.
September 11th, 2009 | #
That is a great question! I live in the Wilkinsburgh area and would love to see some improvement. However, the question is not, when will new developments start appearing in Wilkinsburgh? The real question is: when will the community members begin to form a plan to rebuild their community?
October 1st, 2009 | #
Hello there Wasup
I i saw yer msg on eastlibertypost.com
Very well presented
In fact I have been Googling for something similar for months
eastlibertypost.com is just what I was looking for.
Great effort congratulations!
John
free downloads movies online
November 10th, 2009 | #
Thanks JoJo! Please continue to keep checking out the website!!
November 10th, 2009 | #